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PLATO - Coggle Diagram

- - - - wisdom = knowledge of values thus forms
  - - - plato things there ar such things if we understand a form x
  - - - the just city is jsut for a city but not justice itself - it displays justice as far as pos for a city
- - - - spirited
      - lovers of learning
      - lovers of money
        
        all humans have same kind of soul thus with all these characteristics
        
        raiotnal desire: learning
        
        spirited desire: getting angry
        
        appetitive desire: pleasure of food, drink, sex
  - - - appetite gave in
      - pairs of opposite motivations: appetite and reason
  - - - The healthy city provides for our animal nature.
      - The civilized city provides also for our social nature
      - The just city provides also for our rational nature
    - - justice occurs when every soul part does what it ought to do. Just person has harmonious soul. Every part does what it ought to do independently of external facots. So better off being just than unjust no matter what
- - - - Madman has lost his weapon - is it just to return it?
    - - he means that friends owe it to their friends to do good for them never harm
      - justice is helping friends and harming enemies
        
        Socrates rebuttal
        
        justice is a craft and every craft aims at something good
        
        so if justice is a craft and all crafts aim at some good, it cannot be just to harm enemis
  - - - 1: it is just for the ruling party to do what is in their own interest
        
        laws are just and obeying the law is just
      - 2: it is just for the ruled party to obey and to do what is in the interest of the ruling party
      - Counter-argument
        
        if rules make mistakes, then they make laws that are not to their advantage, but it is just for the ruled to obey laws so acting agaisnt the advantage of the ruler is just and unjust
        
        modified position
        
        the ruler qua ruler does not make mistakes; if they make mistakes they don't do it qua ruler. Art/craft of ruling is in question, not what an individual ruler happens to devide. Justice is tha rt or craft to do what is to the advantage of the ruler
        
        Nature of craft argument Socrates
        
        every craft has a prupose (to serve subject matter), 2. a ruler needs to serve that of his subject matter
        
        ruling is understood normatively: there is a right way and wrong way to rule
        
        Shepherds and cowherd's do not seek the good of the sheep when they fatten them
        
        S: this does not contradict the craft of shepherding: T has confused the craft of shepherding and the reason why the shepherd practises the craft
        
        two different conceptions of what craft is
  - - - outdo = pleonektein. not to outdo but maximise one's possession of some good
    - - function argument
        
        some things have a function, exercising an art or craft is exercising a function. This can be done well or badly. If something is good at function then this this possesses virtue
        
        justice enables a human soul to live well and whoever lives well is happy so just person is happy
  - - - sought for own sake and not consequences
        
        pleasure/enjoyment
      - sought for own sake and consequences
        
        wisdom, sight
        
        Socrates: justice
      - not sought for own sake and yes consequences
        
        medical treatment
        
        Glaucon devil ad: justice
    - - Who is better off?
        
        perfectly just person with reputation of being unjust
        
        socrates has to show this
        
        perfectly unjust person with reputation of being just
- - - - appeals to agreement made among everyone
    - - acting justly is obeying the laws agreed upon by the community, acting justly is all that matters
      - does not matter whether a person is just
  - - - examine large letters first then smaller ones to see whether they are same
        
        small letters: justice in the individual, large letters: justice in the city
  - - - easier to spend all of your time specialising in one thing then splitting your time doing everything
    - - only natural desires are satisfied (context: Glaucon member of elite)
      - "they should recline on proper couches"
      - civilised city needs culture, healthy city overlooked that we are social creatures
      - new problem: unlimited desires to be satisfied
        
        either limit desire or acquire more of what you desire, or go to war
    - - guardians
        
        gentle/high spirited, job to guard the city
        
        link to pedigree dog
        
        two types of guardians
        
        rulers
        
        older, best of the guardians - knowledgeable and capable
        
        auxiliaries
      - producers
      - noble falsehood
        
        ignorance
        
        useful falsehood
        
        falsehood in word - does not harm soul of the listener - must be useful
        
        doctor tells a lie to his patient or parents tell lies to children - lie is not deserving hatred
        
        2 stories to help city
        
        if anyone attacks defend it as their mother and nurse
        
        unites city and provides citizens with an identity
        
        god mixed some with gold, some silver and some bronze and iron
        
        citizens can accept the existence of the class-system
- - - - those who like learning
      - problem: too broad: lots of people who love to learn about sounds and images v(eg festival goers) - are they philosophers
        
        philosophers are those who love the sight of truth
    - - love = when you want to spend time with it and be close to it
      - philosophers = lovers of wisdom, others = lovers of opinion
      - lovers of truth - they want to know what it is
      - Socrates does not have wisdom - but he needs it! Plato proposes education can make a few humans wise
    - - education of reason:mathematics and dialectic
        
        maths is, abstract, no change, not concerned with senses, can only be grasped by thought/reason, knowledge not opinion
        
        dialectice: beauty ITSELF, not beautiful things - forms
    - - imagine there is a captain who is shit at being a captain even though he is stronger - we need expert rulers
      - knoweldge of forms is necessary as we need to know the values that guide our lives
    - - no - they should not be attracted by power or wealth - there must be a better life for them that they truly want to have
      - they owe it to the city that has given them an excellent education - they take turns
      - should they really rule?
        
        kant: rulers do it because it is necessary
  - - - all circles have something in common
        
        it is being a circle iteslf = form
  - - - eg sons appears to me beautiful then I am of the opinion that songs is beauts
    - - objects of geometry are completely knowable, if we master geometry we have full grasp of geometrical objects
      - =expert nowledge
      - seeing a tree is opinion
        
        opinion is what is and what is not
        
        beautiful things are in one way beautiful but have other properties eg size colour. And can change eg cute cat young not old
        
        saying that something is and is does not violate principle of opposites
- - - - harmony, grace and rhythm follow simplicity of character
      - important for glaucaon
        
        we are social beings, but also rational
    - - we must seek out craftsmen who are by nature able to pursue what is beuaiful
      - education in music and poetry permeate the inner part of the soul
      - people educated will be able to identify things not well crafted
    - - arouse spirited part of nature
    - - only for rulers (maths and philosophy)
  - - - not aiming to make any one group outstandingly happy
    - - wisdom
        
        guaridnaship possessed by rulers
        
        thanks to rulers
      - courage
        
        preserve thgouth everything its beleif about whay things to be feared
        
        thanks to auxiliaroes
      - moderation
        
        city needs to be control of itself and its pleasures and desires
        
        desires are limited
        
        guardians are limited deaires thanks to education, produceers limited because of rulers
        
        thanks to harmony between rulers
      - justice/injustice
        
        each class does that it ought to do