Tagore - Gandhi debates
Shantiniketan
Started by RT's father for meditation
TR started a co-ed school on those premises in 1901
It became a university, Viswabharati in 1921
Charkha
Styles
Respect for each other
Gandhi's unique quality of debate with his opponents
Tagore
foreign cloth made a moral issue rather than an economic one
Nationalism
Caste
Fasting
Reason
Bihar earthquake due to untouchability
Tagore
What's physical must be caused by physcal
Unreason is our problem
Gandhi
I can't connect exactly but it made me feel good. Others like me will also feel good
Rt sent a response to Gandhi. Asked him to publish it if what Gandhi originally wrote was true. Trust.
Gandhi still raised funds for Viswa Bharti
willing to learn from each other
Special because they were willing to learn with each other even while disagreeing
Gandhi's bhakts criticised Tagore harshly, Gandhi didn't
Role of the State
Tagore
State has never been as imp as society unlike in Europe
blind goal of state power capture will only change the colour of people at the helm
Swaraj needs individuals to think and disagree.
Side point: Tagore vehemently opposed casteism but in Shantiniketan students refused to interdine until 1915. He didn't want to force this. Gandhi came and convinced people.
Tagore
After Japan's growth as imperialist power and what they did to China
Europe 1914-18
Nationalist Terrorism
There are things to be learnt from the west
Gandhi
Our nationalism is not exclusive. Not against anyone. It is humanitarian. Against the system
technology - poor need it. We can't compete by making things from bare hands
debate between sudents on both views that Rt presided on. Gndhi won. RT acknowledged that education has won.
Language - Hindi - both agreed
Gandhi: inter-provincial communication main language. Compulsory second language. Should it be the languge in Congress Session?
Tagore: yes. but later. There are people to whom it is foreign.
Freedom
Tagore
We have to earn the freedom. To earn it we have to prove that we are morally superior to The British govt.
India should fight for freedom of entire humanity. We are materially poor but morally and spiritually rich.
Nehru's tribute
Gandhi
a nation under bondage of European thinking cannot deliver any lesson to humanity
1/ Non-cooperation (2 problems - school children and meta-point of being non-cooperative)
Tagore
It's negative. Like Buddha's nirvana.
India's message to world should be of cooperation. Non-cooperation will unleash hatred.
Students should not be made to leave schools.
I believe in true meeting of East and West
Erecting barricades of fierce separateness in the name of national necessity is offering hindrance to it, therefore in the long run building a prison for the nation itself
We cannot reject something because it has come from the West
Gandhi
Non-cooperation is not about hating the West
English education is making us clerks
No choice other than violence or non-cooperation
asatya ko nakaarna utna hi zaroori hai jitna satya ko sweekaarna
Upanishads: Neti ending
We had lost all power to say no to goverrnment
Tagore:
Slavery of mind - blindly following others is also wrong.
We are blindly obeying someone because we are lazy. We don't want to do the hard work.
Parable of a Vina Maker. Master shouldn't say that take a wood, put a string and all would be okay. Needs to explain the complexities.
Swaraj cannot come with everyone giving up their work and spina an dweave instead
Cloth burning. It is a matter of economics not morality. Instead of covering our naked people with cloth we are blindly burning them
Swaraj - is in thinking. Blindly obeying someone also means no freedom.
Gandhi
The Great Sentinel: charkha is not being followed blindly. People have faith in it
In tough situations, we have to give up our usual professions for something bigger
Sspinning charkha is for dignity of labour
Economics and ethics are not different. Economics that leads to moral degradation cannot be upheld.
By burning foreign clothes, I burn my shame. I refuse to give them clothes but I give them work instead.
Uniformity being imposed is a hallmark of caste. That has led to repetition but not excellence. "burdened with a vocation that makesno allowance for variation in human nature. "
imposing any thought (like charkha) on people can produce expedient results but in the end it is about surrendering reason
poverty is complex and not resolved by spinning charkha
It is my belief that all civilisations have come to death whenmind of majority gets killed by some pressure of minority. for the truest ealth of man is mind
machines are usefuly. By working with hand we can't be productive
Vishnu's chakra denotes progress. By sticking to charkha we are denying science, an instrument of Vishnu
you cannot fight a foreign advanced force with old means
Tagore: if every good person fasts to remove evil of others, all good persons will die
Tagore: others will also copy
Tagore: penance can only be done by people themsleves
One must go through nationalism to reach internationalism
freedom to engage ideas from outside and freedom to support movements of the outside
Both are inspired by Indian thought
Our people have chosen Narayana over Narayani Sena