2. Status or good reputation aren't necessarily going to the good actors in the system

3. It's not enough to have the facts. The facts need to be communicated with attitude.

Howard: there a new level of sophistication in terms of the ability of mis- and dis-informers to up their game much faster than people can be educated about it.

Roland: You can be you can be a master in manipulation without ever lying that just by selecting your facts and providing a particular lens or context.

Roland: Newspapers/journals that have strong editorial societies that keep the editorials independent.

Josh: Asian medicine, which realizes that it's all about the internal state of the body and not just foreign invaders.

4. Howard: Media is driven by attention. We have an issue in the in the USA with journalism called called capitalism and we're seeing that the the apparatus for distributing the truth can be gamed by somebody who's really good at capturing attention. So we're seeing really good journalists paying a lot of attention to Trump's antics because it sells newspapers and it gets you television ratings. And that seems to be driving the bus.

Joe Corneil: it's not that data is wrong, it's just that data in itself is is limited. And it needs to be augmented with models. So I think that that's actually very good contribution to this theme of sense making is to introduce this theme of causality beyond just data or metrics.

David: data as anInformation Technology concept is completely, utterly meaningless unless it's witnessed; unless it is has human input into assessing the reliability & the accuracy the real world. Data is the wrong concept. What we need is verified, witnessed information with multidimensional reputation associated with that.

Michael Haupt: Data needs to be in context. Indigenous people absolutely reject any kind of measurement, any kind of metric, unless there's some sense of intuition, some sense of spiritual inner guidance. But to me, there needs to be a balance between those two, what the balance is, I don't know. There is definitely a role for technology to play as well as a deepened inner knowing and guidance. We need more warm data

Grace: that the other thing that I worry about when we talk about people dying is how many people are dying of being shut in suicide, again, unemployment, right starvation, you know, all kinds of violence, all these things, we're not being shown the numbers of people dying from this specific disease

Michael: What does this mean to the continued existence of us as a species that, to me is much more important than how many people have died, in which country because we're all going to die.

Roland: Without data, how can we reason about what is happening?

Blame the "other": Howard: during the black plague what you do To protect your town was to burn a few hundred juice in the in the town square. Eventually, it was discovered that microorganisms cause diseases and you could boil your water. Here we are with another play and the anti Asian and anti semitic tropes are are out there.

They had previous experience with the CoronaVirus and knew what to to right away, like wearing masks.

David: Why we knew so little about this virus: You don't study things that don't have large morbidity in western hops hospitals or have large grants. So the number of people globally that were researching Coronavirus before the recent outbreaks, you could count, you know, it's under 100.