Please enable JavaScript.

Coggle requires JavaScript to display documents.

‘Herodotus cannot decide whether he sees humanity as essentially equal or…

- - - - exiled by the tyrant of Halicarnassus - Lygdamis to Samos where he learned Greek in an Ionian dialect
        
        then later returned, then went into exile, then joined the foundation of Thurii - Athenian led pan-Hellenic colony in Italy
- - - - victory in Persian wars from which Athenian decomracy and much of its identity flourished
- - - - what evidence do you have to support your views?
  - - - the role of hubris in personal and military tragedy
- - - - 1.1-32
        
        Prelimary, origin of conflict between Greeks and barbarians, dismissal of those accounts, Croesus first against Greeks
        
        History of Mermnadae from Gyges to Alyattes
        
        Gyges becomes king bymurdering Candaules
        
        exploits of Gyges, Ardys, Sadyattes, Alyattes
        
        Arion and the Dolphin
        
        Croesus conquers Greeks of Asia Minor
        
        Croesus meets Solon the Athenian
      - 1.131-40
        
        Customs of the Persians
- - - - uses words which overlap with our notion of 'equality'
      - historical intention
        
        the way he depicts non-Greeks influenced by his intention for literary innovation
        
        premise, first line of work, that this is an 'inquiry', he wants to [thoughtfully] present the cultures of the non-Greeks in order to find and depict the truth
        
        are then the technicalities and more abstract elements of non-Greek cultures then subordinate to what can be grasped and categorised?
    - - modern
      - no true way to compare the two or expect a full concept of equality, rather it should be evaluated whether his account is truly balanced or whether his work meets the criteria of terms he uses* which function in their own seperate capacities
    - - mainly related to Athens' status a democracy, thus regarding voting rights, leadership
        
        political
        
        Aristotle's 'Isos' (Nichomachean ethics) - source of many terms uses
        
        political justice for all citizens
        
        microcosm created by Athenian terminology - the principles of justice among one people applied to international relations
        
        Re: adbuction of Io by Phoenicians: 'This, according to the Persian account (the Greeks have a different story), was how Io came to Egypt; and this was the first in a series of unjust acts' [1.2]
        
        immediately focuses on the 'opposing' Persian account, sets up opposition of both accounts, some balance
        
        1 more item...
        
        adikema
        
        1 more item...
        
        adikia
        
        'For the next outrage it was the Greeks again who were responsible.' [1.2]
        
        moral term, personfiifed as injustice, often represented in Greek visual culture as in physical conflict with Dike - the personfiication of justice
        
        adikos
        
        'Abducting young women, in their opinion, is not, indeed, a lawful act; but it is stupid after the event to make a fuss about avenging it.' [1.4]
        
        ^^^ assimilates political and moral terms of Greeks to Persian story [1.1-4]
        
        equality as justice - wrongdoers are held liable and the praiseworthy are recognised
        
        Gyges to Candaules: 'Right and wrong were distinguished long ago - and I'll tell you one thing that is right: a man should mind his own business. I do not doubt that your wife is the most beautiful of women; so for godness' sake do not ask me to behave contrary to custom.'
        
        first characterisation of Persians is poor, depicts a leader as morally impoverished, balances with his bodyguard who espouses shared Greek morals, this disparity in power presents Persians in a poor light
        
        enculturation
        
        Gyges encourages kalos, unlike the Sardinian king - a poor portrait of the people by this focal point
        
        retrospective justification of his usuring the throne by Greek standards
        
        'Later he had his power confrmed by an oracle from Delphi.' [1.13]
        
        pious
        
        1 more item...
        
        justice
        
        ! military conquest a transactional relationship of injustice and revenge, the theft and return of property, destruction and restoration
        
        'It would given their revenge for their brothers on the mainland, whom you have enslaved' [1.27]
    - - heroism
        
        kleos - Homeric, unifying Greeks and non-Greeks in glory
        
        states he does not want barbarians to be deprived of glory
        
        'and great and marvellous deeds - some displayed by the Greeks, some by barbarians - may not be without their glory; [1.0]
      - conventions
        
        intermediatory or subordinate figure promotes the maintenance of order and justice
        
        Gyges
        
        Bias of Priene [1.27]
        
        Greek sage
        
        'This way of putting the matter tickled Croesus' fancy. Moreover, it seemed so much to the point, that he banadoned he ideal of building a fleet, and formed a treaty of friendship with the Ionian islanders.'
  - - - 'Herodotus of Halicarnassus here displays his inquiry, so that human achievements may not become forgotten in time, and great and marvellous deeds - some displayed by the Greeks, some by barbarians - may not be without their glory; and especially to show why the two peoples fought with each other.' Book 1.0*
        
        on the surface
        
        in a sense, his work 'essentially equal' as explicitly works towards a balanced and systematic account of the events at hand, the achievements of humankind, recognising those of all peoples
        
        signficant that he explicitly names too
        
        'So much for what Persians and Phoenicians say; and I have no intention of passing judgement on its truth or falsity. I prefer to rely on my own knowledge, and to point out who it was in actual fact that first injured the Greeks; then I will proceed with my history, telling the story as I go along of small cities of men no less than that of great.' [1.5]
        
        'For most of those which were great once are small today; and those which used to be small were great in my own time.' [1.5]
        
        implications towards bias
        
        explicitly stating after mankind's achivements, that some of these are by 'barbarians', that working to highlight achievements through lens of what is acceptable to Greeks, not to mention that Greeks precede, whereas the claim afterwards of barbarians is almost consiliatory and somewhat superficial
        
        refers to them as 'the two peoples', sets up and encourages a dual conflict, where one may inevitably fall into the category of antagonist, and suggests them as total opposites
        
        responsibility
        
        sets up some fault, good and bad associated with actions of a culture
        
        'Learned Persians put the responsibility for the quarrel on the Phoenicians' [1.1]
        
        2 more items...
  - - - how does this fit in with different concepts of equality? does it diminish it?
  - - - departure from moral didactic
  - - - at the very least a [narrative] pretence of equal treatment
- - - - barbarians still had strong association with slavery
  - - - 'Themselves they consider in every way superior to everyone else in the world, and allow other nations a share of good qualities decreasing according to distance, the furthest off being in their view the worst.' [1.134]
        
        also seems to ignore Athenian hegemony within Greek structures such as Delian League, and the granting of special privileges and rights of those who share their cultural and militaristic values
        
        'By a similar sort of principle the Medes extended their system of administration and government during the period of their dominance: the various nations governed each other, the Medes being the supreme authority and concerning themselves especially with their nearest enighbours; these in their turn ruling their neighbours, who were responsible for the next, and so on.' [1.134]
  - - - antithesis of democratic values
        
        'He was the first foreigner so far as we know to come into direct contact with the Greeks, both in the way of conquest and alliance, forcing tribute from Ionians, Aeolians, and Asiatic Dorians, and forming a pact of friendship with the Lacedaemonians. Before Croesus' time all the Greeks had been free; for earlier Cimmerian attack on Ionia was not a conquest, but a mere plundering raid.' [1.6]
        
        Persian contact a source of grief for Greeks, culture conflict
        
        Eleutheria
        
        political concept associated with the end of the Persian wars
        
        !! marker of the beginning of the Persian wars, presents it from outset as oppression
        
        'The former are better off than the latter in two respect only, whereas the poor but lucky man has the advantage in many ways; for though the rich have the means to satisfy their appetites and to bear calamities, and the poor have not, the poor, if the are lucky, are more liekly to keep clear of trouble, and will besides the blessings of a sound body, health, freedom from trouble, fine children, and good looks' [1.32]
        
        moralising and political dimensions
        
        [apathes] Kakos - without [suffering]
        
        Solon explains that a man must avoid this force in his life to be happy [1.32]
        
        along with an expressed freedom from, denotes an oppressive energy, thus far the Greeks largely associated with a desire for freedom, while lists the sieges of the barbarian leaders
        
        winds a narrative of good and evil which barbarians and Greeks fall into, despite Herodotus' spoken intention to include barbarian achievements
        
        'In the course of time Croesus subdued all the peoples west of the river Halys, except the Cilians and Lycians. The rest he kept in subjection [...]' [1.28]
      - amorality
        
        his bodyguard must point out his moral inpropriety
        
        'Gyges gave a cry of horror. 'Master', he said, 'what an improper suggestion'' [1.8]
        
        emphasised by collocation of a vignette of moral misdeed followed by his downfall*
  - - - 'From that root sprang their belief in the perpetual emnity of the Graecian world towards them - because the Persians claim Asia and the barbarian races dwelling in it as their own, Europe and the Greek states being, in their opinion, quite seperate and distinct from them.' [1.4]
  - - - 'For with the Lydians, as with most barbarian races, it is thought highly indecent even for a man to be seen naked.' [1.10]
    - - signficiant that first example introduces a dysfunctional rulership brought about by disfunctional palace
        
        'Gyges', she said, as soon as he presented himself, 'there are two courses of action open to you, and you may take your choice between them. Kill Candaules and seize the throne, with me as your wife; or die yourself on the spot, so that never again may your blind obedience to the king tempt you to see what you have no right to see.' [1.11]
        
        Lydians characterise tyranny
      - pride and prosperity leads to downfall
        
        Solon - 'God is envious of human prosperity and likes to trouble us.' [1.32]
  - - - Rosalind Thomas, 'Herodotus in Context - 4, Nomos is king: nomos, environment and ethnic character in Herodotus
        
        summary
        
        !shows biases towards 'scientific' nations, in favour of certain nomoi and diminishes this bias by claiming it is shared by foreign rulers
        
        customs, habits, laws - written and unwritten evaluated rather than geography and climate as he rejects idea of Europe and Asia as dividing lines [102]
        
        tendency to evaluate regions by nomoi rather than geographically
        
        'at every strage nomos is crucial.' [102]
        
        given examples
        
        Scythians - successful resistence against Persia, helped by geography but the Scythian nomoi were the "most active agents" [102]
        
        'The implications of this stress on nomos, which can cross ethnic boundaries, deserve more emphasis than they have perhaps had: they have considerable implications ofr Herodotus' ideas (and assumptions) about politics, political systems and ethnic character.' [102]
        
        important role of custom [103]
        
        customs have equal validity (i.e. III 38)
        
        'For if anyone, no matter who, were given the opportunity of choosing from amongst all the nations in the world the beliefs which he thought best, he would inevitably [...] choose those of his own country. Everyone without exception believes his own customs [...] to be best.
        
        c5th intellectualism
  - - - 'When all these nations had been added to the Lydian empire, and Sardis was at the height of her wealth and prosperity, all the great Greek teacher of that epoch, one after another, paid visits to the capital. Much the most distinguished of them was Solon the Athenian, the man who at the request of his countryman had made a code of laws for Athens.' [1.29]
        
        Croesus said: 'well my Athenian friend, I have heard a great deal about your wisdom, and how widely you have travelled in pursuit of knowledge.' [1.30]
      - happiness by Athenian standards
        
        Tellus
        
        1) prosperous city, sons, children born to them which all survived
        2) wealth
        3) glorious death - high honour in public funeral
        [1.30]
        
        ! 'All these details about the happiness of Tellus, Solon doubtless intended as a moral lesson for the king; Croesus, however, thinking he would at least be awarded second prize, asked who was the next happiest person whom Solon had seen.' [1.31]
        
        Solon as a moral and narrative mouthpiece, accompanies the events themselves
        
        Cloebis and Biton
        
        1) lived comfortably 2) success in athletics 3) transported mother to temple of Hera 4) public recognition and praise [1.31]
        
        must be dead, otherwise just 'lucky' [1.32] - tied to public recognition and repute
    - - inevitably will remove some meaning and context
      - 'Zeus, in their system, is the whole circle of the heavens, and they sacrifice to him from the tops of mountains.' [1.131]
        
        Ahuramazda, the creator god who made earth, sky, man and human happiness
  - - - 'Gyges was the first foreigner we know of, after King Midas of Phrygia, son of Gordias, to dedicate offerings at Delphi.' [1.14]
      - dependance on oracle of Delphi
        
        becomes associated with kingly fate after Gyges
        
        Alyattes must propitiate Athena in order to recieve the oracle at Delphi [1.19-20]
        
        designs a truce while the temple is being rebuilt [1.21]
        
        his health recovers after he builds a second temple [1.22]
        
        'The Ephesians, when he laid siege to them, ran a rope from their walls to the temple of Artemis, putting the town, by means of this link, under the goddess' protection.' [1.26]
      - religion
        
        religious development
        
        Persian animism, in a way can be read as a lack of development or cultivation, symbolic of early religion*
        
        'The erection of statues, temples, and altars is not an accepted practice amongst them, and anyone who does such a thing is considered a fool, because, presumably, the Persian religion is not anthropomorphic like the Greek.' [1.131]
        
        direct comparison
        
        ! *'it was later that they learned from the Assyrians and Arabians the cult of Uranian Aphrodite. The Assyrian name for Aphrodite is Mylitta, the Arbaian Alilat, the Persian Mitra.'* [1.131]
        
        describing lack of Greek custom [and thus sophistication] rather than unique indentifying traits independantly*
        
        As for ceremonial, when they offer sacrifice to the deities I mentioned, they erect no altar and kindle no fire; the libation, the flute-music, the garlands, the sprinkled meal - all these things they have no use for;' [1.131]
        
        oppressive prescence of Greek custom in description of barbarian culture
        
        what Herodotus does describe is based on a similarity with Greek religious custom
        
        'but before a ceremony a man sticks a spray of leaves, usually myrtle leaves, into his headress, takes the victim to some purified place and invokes the deity to whom he wishes to sacrifice.' [1.132]
      - birthdays
        
        'Of all the days in the year the Persian most distinguishes his birthday, and celebrates it with a dinner of special magnificience;' [1.133]
      - Social stratification
        
        'When Persians meet in the streets one can always tell by their mode of greeting whether or not they are of the same rank; for their do not speak but kiss - their equals upon the muth, those somewhat superior on the cheeks. A man of greatly inferior rank prostrates himself in profound reverence' [1.134]
      - mutable identity
        
        'No race is so ready to adopt foreign ways as the Persian; for instance, they wear the Median costume because they think it handsomer than their own, and their soldiers wear Egyptian corslet.' [1.135]
      - pleasure
        
        Pleasures, too, of all sorts they are quick to indulge in when they get to know about them - a notable instance is pederasty, which they learned from the Greeks. Every man has a number of wives, and a much greater number of concubines.' [1.136]
      - male identity
        
        'After prowess in fighting, the chief proof of manliness is to be the father of a large family of bodys. Those who have the most sons recieve an annual present from the king - on the principle that there is strength in numbers.' [1.136]
        
        education
        
        ! 'The period of a boy's education is between the ages of five and twenty, and they are taught three things only: to ride, to use the bow, and to speak the turth. [...] In my view this is a sound practice. [1.136]
        
        authorial comment to praise
      - Governing justice
        
        ! 'I admire also the custom which forbids even the king himself to put a man to death for a single offence, and any Persian under similar circumstances to punish a servant by an irreperable injury. Their way is to balance faults against services, and then, if the faults are greater and more numerous, anger may take its course.' [1.137]
- - - - explicitness and implicitness
      - concepts of bias which fit neither
    - - self referencing?
    - - nomos
    - - conflicts of Greeks and Persians
  - - - disparency between ancient and modern concepts of equality
    - - assimilation of foreign concepts/ customs to Greek and vice versa
      - perhaps a source/ reason for of this apparent indecision/ conflict is the disparency between how Herodotus' views his own perspective and the demands to compare cultures inherent to his genre?
      - misrepresentation due to synthesis?
  - - - focus on and appreciation of the nuances of culture
    - - Greek readership
      - disproportionate importance of Persian wars and barbarians to Greece than the other way around*
    - - 1) the Greeks being 'essentially equal [to mankind]' or 'superior' are not mutually exclusive, as - particularly through the modern lense - superiority can be [reinforced] through biased or incomplete concepts of equality
        
        if Herodotus is praising 'barbarians' based on Greek value systems then it is impossible for him to fully appreciate their cultures and decisions
        
        nomoi
        
        instances of rewarding 'barbarians' for Greek-like behaviour
        
        cultural biases
        
        diminishing other cultural identifies through grouping [and having sides]
        
        ethnography
        
        H's need to systematise
        
        applies localised political morality and notions of justice [didactic]
        
        Greek notions of equality are different, relate to their value systems and experiences, and are not as developed and imperative as those of the modern day*
        
        in this regard, incomplete or incompatable concepts of equality can be read as transgressions against the modern goals of equality
        
        'essentially equal' reads as a bit of a misnomer, [at least from modern perspective], equality is all-encompassing, inclusive, consistent and actuely aware of the deterious effect of cultural bias and the prior need to evaluate cultural value in a biased way
      - factor - complicated as definitions subject to different readings through time
    - - distinct overarching theme of Greeks vs 'barbarians' - already sets up focus on the culture of the Greek world and creates space for 'othering' mentality
    - - for example, we cannot assume that because of his [alleged] past cultural experiences [and thus that he is likely to be more culturally sensitive], that this will escape the systematic demand to characterise each region in a certain way, and as being against the Greeks
    - - disagree that Herodotus cannot agree on his view, but rather, he operates under a bias in his analysis of cultrures, within a [categorising] [genre], his notion of equality (though not explicitly stated, so insofar as his intention to provide a balanced, thorough and enlightened account of cultural differences) is flawed as his efforts to compare two main regions ultimately subordinates the 'barbarians' to a status were at worse they can be negatively compared and are antagonists, and at best they can be praised for aspects of their culture which can be assimilated to their Greek counterparts.
        
        Thus rather this inconsistency reveals the conflict between the complex ideology and cultural sensibiities of the author, and the more ideologically authorative and [linear] narrative voice, and also how 'equality' (especially that regarding various cultures) as a [formalised] concept is anachronistic and has no direct transliteration in Greek (in which usage was part of Athenian cultural identity pertaining to their democracy)
    - - balanced account, proportionate and fair focus
      - couched in [scope] of political justice according to [democratic]* values - consistent? - established as a theme at the very beginning
        
        embodied by the seizing of Io story at the beginning of book 1